WILLIAM BRANGHAM: President Trump's# return to the White House has seen## several significant changes from his first term,## turning this into a consequential year# for the presidency and for the country.

So, to reflect on it all, we turn# now to the analysis of Brooks and## Atkins Stohr.

That's David Brooks of The# New York Times and Kimberly Atkins Stohr## of The Boston Globe.

Jonathan Capehart is away.

Welcome to you both.

Thank you for being here.

KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR, The# Boston Globe: Good to be here.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: David,.. what Trump 2.0 was going to look like# compared to the first version.

And we## have now seen a year of it, an incredibly# aggressive flexing of executive authority.

When you look back on this year,# what really stands out to you?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I tell two stories.

The first is that since 1945, the American# establishment, if you want to put it t.. has built a series of institutions,# things like the Western alliance, NATO,## the Department of Justice, USAID, and all of those# things have been hollowed out over the last year.

And so we have seen a great decline# in state capacity.

You have to worry## about if we're a nation in decline,# because China is investing in science,## they're investing in technologies, they're# kicking our butts.

And so they tell the## decline.

This has been a tragedy,# an error of historic proportions.

The other story is that, since 1945, the# American establishment has lost touch## with American workers.

And they have# passed trade and immigration policies## that immigration workers didn't like.

They# have -- frankly, in the cultural institutions,## the media, the universities, they have kicked# working-class and conservative voices out.

And so a lot of people feel, I'm# invisible to these people.

And then... WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And, ergo, we get Trump.

DAVID BROOKS: And so we get Trump.

And# so I think both those stor.. And so, as much as we lament the horror# of what's happened over the last year,## it's much more horrible than I anticipated, for# people like me, we have to ask ourselves, what## do we do to bring this about?

And I# think both those stories are true.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: What do you think?

KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR: Yes,# two .. at me.

And one is the erosion of the rule of law.

And I see the Trumpification of the Department# of Justice, for example, as a key role in that## right alongside the White House.

He# came in pardoning the January 6 rioters,## everyone who participated in that# horrific day, but, at the same time,## weaponizing the Department of Justice# to go after his political enemies.

I mean, just today, when he was posting# on TRUTH Social about the Epstein files,## he's directing people just to look at the# Democrats that are in these files and not## the Republicans, because everything about# what the Democrats are tagging is a hoax,## and that he has an attorney general now and an FBI# director that are willing to go along with that.

As an attorney, this is not how I learned in# law school that the rule of law is supposed to## be implemented.

Another thing I think# you see a great through line, whether## it's its immigration policies or the# decimation of the federal government## with the purging of workers to the attacks# on universities, is a through line of race.

It is this idea that people within the country# who are Black or Latino or also Muslim,## the Islamophobic aspect of it, or immigrants,## it's only those that are deemed the ones# that are a danger to the country.

We will## open white South Africans -- open our arms to# white South Africans, but at the same time,## the denigration of other countries as Third# World, as less than, as hellholes and worse.

You see this real idea that there is# a white Christian nationalism that has## taken over the federal government in a way# that I never thought I'd see in my lifetime.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean, as you're both# describing what we have been seeing unfolding,## this is -- none of this should come as a surprise.## I mean, this is what candidate Trump# promised on so many different levels.

I## will be your retribution.

I will -- I want# my Roy Cohn in the Department of Justice.

I will deport, I mean, those signs# that the rallies.

To this question## you were asking before, David, about# how -- what we ought to look at as far## as whether we got ourselves here,# how do you answer that question?

DAVID BROOKS: The surprise# or how we got ourselves.

I mean, my simple answer is#that we live in a country where people with## high school degrees die 10 years sooner than# people with college degrees, where people with## high school degrees are five times more likely# to die of opioids, where people with high school## degrees are much less likely to get married,# much more likely to have kids out of wedlock.

People with high school degrees are 2.4# times more likely to say they have no## friends.

People with high school degrees are# less likely to go to parks.

And so we have## created an inherited meritocratic# system, an inherited caste system.

And if you tell successive generations that your# kids are not going to have an equal shot because## your kids by eighth grade have fallen five# grades level below the educated class, well,## if you know your kids are going to have# no shot, they're going to flip the table.

And that's why it's always important# to see this phenomenon as a global## phenomenon.

It's not just Donald Trump.# It's Nigel Farage in Britain.

It's the## right in France.

It's the AfD# in Germany.

It's in Poland.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: South and Central America.

DAVID BROOKS: It's South and# Central .. This is a global phenomenon.

It is a phenomenon of# the information age.

That information ag.. people with money, with education, with money,# and it creates this class system.

And just as## in the 1880s and 1890s, we screwed up responding# to industrialization, we have over the last 20 or## 30 years not adequately responded to the shifts# that the information age has brought about us.

And so I look at this as a moment of rupture# and repair, that it's ugly to live through.## I hate what Donald Trump is doing, but every# time America or any country or us personally,## think of your own personal life, life moves# forward through a process of rupture and## repair.

Something falls apart, something# terrible happens, but you are strong enough## as a nation to ask yourself honest questions,# what part of this problem am I responsible for?

And when you do that, then repair begins to# happen.

And America's been through this so many## times, 1830s, 1890s, 1860s, 1960s.

I'm confident# that America will go through this horrible period## of rupture and something will come out the# other end if we're creative enough to adjust.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Kimberly, do you -- who do you# see as the repairers that David is yearning for?

KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR: Well, I think that it's# going to be many of the same repairs that we## saw those periods that you talked about.

We# didn't just come through the rupture on our## own.

We came through with a sustained# plan of how to get ourselves out of it.

After the Civil War, there was Reconstruction.# That was meant to heal some of the wounds and## bring up the formerly enslaved African Americans# to a place where they can participate fully in## society.

And what did we get?

We got a# vicious blowback to it with Jim Crow,## a rejection of it, this idea that politically# people thought it was better to say, hey,## these are people taking something that# belongs to you,rather than saying,## hey, let's look for a way to bring up# everyone and to protect everyone's rights.

That's exactly what Donald Trump is doing.# He could be talking to the people that you## talked about being left behind, but instead# he's saying that these immigrants or these## Black folks or these other people are# taking something that belongs to you.

And that's what's giving people the idea that this# is unfair.

But one thing that I think, this can't## happen without institutions allowing it.

And I# think this year we saw the biggest institution,## the Supreme Court, basically allowing Trump,# before the actions that he has taken has even## been deemed to be constitutional or legal, in# the short term allowing them to go in place.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: On the shadow# docket, all these emergency orders.

KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR: On the shadow# docket, .. And so by the time the legality or# the constitutionality has decided,## very little has been so far, the damage has# already done.

And USAID is already gone.

The## Education Department's right next to it.

You're# seeing people who have been deported to countries## that they don't have family, they have never# been to before.

How do you make them whole?

That's too late.

So the# fact that the Supreme Court,## as the unelected independent branch of# our government, has basically been more## often than not a rubber stamp for him is a real# problem.

We need our institutions to step up.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean, earlier# this spring, David, you will remember,## you called for arguing that all of# these little protests, pushbacks that## are happening against the Trump administration# were insufficient for what you're diagnosing.

And you called for a civic -- collective# civic action.

I don't think I'm breaking## any news to you that I don't think# that has happened in the country.

DAVID BROOKS: Yes.

No, I mean, I was reading all these#lefty revolutionaries and I'm like,## yes, yes, let's go, get them.

(LAUGHTER) DAVID BROOKS: I thin.. because they fear their# organization will lose money.

But one of the reasons it has not# happened, if you look at around## the world where it has happened, where# people rose up against authoritarianism,## they had strong civic structures.

Let's# say in the Philippines in the 1980s,## when they rose up, Ferdinand Marcos was# elected, but then he tried to steal power.

And so what happened was, the students rose.# The transportation workers arose.

The business## community arose.

The Catholic Church rose.

It# happened with the institutions of civil society,## through them.

And our institutions# of civil society may be too weak.

And so every institution, whether it's a# university or a business or a law firm, faces## a collective action problem.

If I stick my head# up, I'm going to get shot down.

And without strong## civic institutions where people can move as one,# it's super hard for rare individuals to stand up.

And I'm afraid that's part of what's# happened.

The second thing that's happened is,## there has been such a decay of moral norms# that it's hard for any institution to say,## no, we are going to stand up for this.

You# are not going to talk about Rob Reiner the## way you did.

You're not going to use the# racial language that is omnipresent now.

And it's hard to articulate when the corrosion# is not only in our laws, but in our minds,## in our language.

That's a hard thing to# challenge.

But I'm hopeful in the long## term it will happen.

In the 1890s, we had a# civic renaissance.

We had the creation of the## Boys and Girls Clubs.

We had the creation# of the NAACP, the unions, the Sierra Club.

All these civic organizations were created by a# group of people who said, we can't go on this way.## And once you had the civic institutions,# then, in around 1900, you had the progressive## movement.

You get a cultural shift, you get a# civic renaissance, and then political reform.

We're still waiting for the civic renaissance.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean, in just the last 30# seconds we have, Kimberly, the Democrats have## been one of these institutions that seemingly# have been kind of feckless in pushing back.

They have a midterm coming up.

Do# you think what we have seen in the## recent elections will be echoed?

You# have hope that they will be there?

KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR: I hope so.

I mean, I think that it is imperati.. going to be -- we always say it's the most# consequential coming up.

I'm afraid of the## voter information gathering that# the federal government is doing,## trying to consolidate voter lists and be# in charge of who gets purged from them.

I see that the obstacles are already being put up# for a free and fair election.

Democrats have to## say clearly that this is not acceptable and put# forward an agenda that Americans can get behind.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Kimberly# Atkins Stohr, David Brooks,## so nice to see you both.

Thank you very much.

DAVID BROOKS: Thank you.

KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR: Thank you.